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CodesInChaos 1 days ago [-]
> In a snake-eating-its-own-tail irony, a 2023 analysis found that between 33% and 46% of workers on the platform were using large language models to complete their tasks,
I assume AI use by workers has risen to the point where it renders Mechanical Turk pointless.
skt5 23 hours ago [-]
This likely means those consuming the outputs of Mechanical Turk don't have a good way to measure the value (aka quality) of the outputs.
If they did - then they shouldn't care whether it's a human or a LLM. And if it's a LLM - then the cost will roughly correlate to the MIN(cost of the LLM, cost of a human) to do the task.
AndrewOMartin 23 hours ago [-]
I think the "state of the art" of measuring the quality of outputs was to send the same task to multiple "agents" and only accept answers if over a certain amount agree. With some human review and reputation scoring sprinkled on top. It was a while since I was in this field though
skt5 13 hours ago [-]
This approach does work when there's a clear answer but what about tasks where the correct answer is multi-modal? Incentivizing agreement works only for tasks where there's clear answers.
renegade-otter 19 hours ago [-]
The problem is bigger. Outside of coding, there is no real way to reinforce a model with pass/fail cycles until it stops hallucinating. This is why customer service uses will always have a problem. This compounds as you chain agents together.
It's like the speed of light - to get to that point, you need exponentially more energy, and you will never ever get there.
moralestapia 1 days ago [-]
Yeah, I was doing this kind of Artificial Artificial Artificial Intelligence back in 2012 to make some extra $$$. Glad they finally "patched" that hole ^^.
pc86 1 days ago [-]
You were using LLMs in 2012?
simlevesque 1 days ago [-]
They were faking artificial intelligence by using real individuals.
HPsquared 21 hours ago [-]
That's just Artificial Artificial Intelligence, the triple negative implies they built an automated system to impersonate humans who impersonate an automated system (which ultimately imitates a human).
subarctic 23 hours ago [-]
Artificial AI = stuff like mechanical turk where they get humans to do stuff computers can't do and make it look like it's "AI"
Artificial Artificial Intelligence = using computers to do mechanical turk jobs
DonHopkins 13 hours ago [-]
If it wasn't made in the State of Artifice, then it's only Sparkling Intelligence.
moralestapia 23 hours ago [-]
You wrote the same thing twice, hehe.
But the point gets across.
icepush 22 hours ago [-]
Artificial Artificial Artificial intelligence is when the chat bot is out of capacity, so a person in India is writing the response that gets returned by the LLM which gets pasted into Mechanical Turk.
17 hours ago [-]
moralestapia 21 hours ago [-]
"Artificial AI"
and
"Artificial Artificial intelligence"
are the same thing.
Come on. This site can do better.
icepush 17 hours ago [-]
Are they? If one uses artificial in the sense of "fake" then a human pretending to be a machine AI would count as an artificial AI. The only scenario where this doesn't hold is if you are using "artificial" in the sense of "not created by nature".
neuroticnews25 9 hours ago [-]
The point is AI expands to Artificial Inteligence and Artificial AI expands to Artificial Artificial Inteligence.
vitally3643 21 hours ago [-]
yes, this site can do a lot better than nitpicking acronyms
imtringued 4 hours ago [-]
You're the one wasting time with another incorrect comment.
This point is that AAAI and AAI are not the same thing.
DonHopkins 13 hours ago [-]
You can take that to the Automatic ATM Machine.
pixel_popping 1 days ago [-]
Fiverr-5.5 was the leading model back then.
HPsquared 21 hours ago [-]
Living, Low-income Minions?
moralestapia 21 hours ago [-]
This is my main argument as to why (people with) AI will not take over the world.
Cheap, disposable, on-demand intelligence has existed for millennia.
If anything, AI is more of an equalizer.
moralestapia 24 hours ago [-]
Not LLMs. (Useful) LLMs came to the market around 2022.
6510 22 hours ago [-]
I don't see why I would care how they do the job. Just do the job, I have other things to do.
tsimionescu 7 hours ago [-]
If you get someone to mow your lawn, do you not care if (a) they use an automated machine that you could rent by the hour for far less, and/or (b) at the end your lawn is actually in a good shape?
Twirrim 16 hours ago [-]
Back around 10 years ago, I gained a new manager who had previously managed mechanical turk. It was already recognised as a dead end back then.
I remember him talking about getting a mandate from Amazon Security to upgrade from the long EOL MySQL 4.0 to MySQL 5.something, and that it was almost impossible to get any resources committed from leadership to even do it despite the fact it was security requiring it (which usually resulted in everyone jumping before stopping to ask how high to jump). I want to say he ended up doing it himself? Something like that..
All existing extremely minimal headcount was tied up in a massive technical debt of KTLO work, and proposals to resolve those issues similarly met resourcing road-blocks.
obblekk 24 hours ago [-]
Maybe the most unambiguous "ai will automate work" example I've seen yet.
Absolutely does not imply the workers are automated since they can now use the current models to do more complex tasks at the vast number of new AI training data startups.
Turk was simply not designed for greater complexity tasks and so much of their lunch has been eaten by startups specifically built to collect AI training data.
jordemort 22 hours ago [-]
I turked for a bit trying to make some extra cash leading up to my wedding, but it was a very time-inefficient way to make money. I think I managed to wring 10 or 20 bucks out of it tops after plugging at it for a month.
root-parent 1 days ago [-]
I can see a high value startup, that will provide Human Intelligence with real Humans, locked in the room, with no network, books, LLMs and monitored 24x7 with cameras.
HoldOnAMinute 23 hours ago [-]
Please enjoy each task equally
eli 21 hours ago [-]
I'd suggest first looking into the conditions that enable humans to generate sustained, high quality output.
mcmcmc 23 hours ago [-]
24/7 isolation with no stimulation outside of work? Wonder if the hallucination rate would be higher or lower
morkalork 22 hours ago [-]
Just give them some exercise bikes to pedal to keep them physically occupied
18 hours ago [-]
8 hours ago [-]
weregiraffe 10 hours ago [-]
Prison labor for the rescue!
DonHopkins 13 hours ago [-]
I'd pay for authentic artisnal fresh prison-to-screen Trump Truths produced that way.
nullsmack 1 days ago [-]
I had no idea this was still around.
It helped me buy a Battlefield 2 "Special Forces" expansion pack back in the day.
Well, I could've bought it either way but buying it didn't impact my normal income because I did Mechanical Turk in my free time enough to get it.
nirav72 12 hours ago [-]
That was a fun DLC. The zip lines were my favorite on the night maps.
aabhay 20 hours ago [-]
This has very little to do with “AI replacing jobs” and much much more to do with a bad product getting obsoleted by better ones.
Human labeling is a two sided marketplace and so as any marketplace startup knows, both sides need to be constantly nurtured otherwise the system can collapse as worsening quality leads to churn and a vicious cycle that empties out the platform.
In labeling, you need to understand the limitations of individual work and fatigue, keep your pipeline bursting with awesome and consistent work, and improve the platform to make customer experience great.
AMT has been totally languishing in all these respects. Pay is terrible, dishonesty rampant, etc. It was a bad product, no need to pedestalize it or turn it political
leohonexus 24 hours ago [-]
Where do I find participants for my user studies then?
I assume AI use by workers has risen to the point where it renders Mechanical Turk pointless.
If they did - then they shouldn't care whether it's a human or a LLM. And if it's a LLM - then the cost will roughly correlate to the MIN(cost of the LLM, cost of a human) to do the task.
It's like the speed of light - to get to that point, you need exponentially more energy, and you will never ever get there.
Artificial Artificial Intelligence = using computers to do mechanical turk jobs
But the point gets across.
and
"Artificial Artificial intelligence"
are the same thing.
Come on. This site can do better.
This point is that AAAI and AAI are not the same thing.
Cheap, disposable, on-demand intelligence has existed for millennia.
If anything, AI is more of an equalizer.
I remember him talking about getting a mandate from Amazon Security to upgrade from the long EOL MySQL 4.0 to MySQL 5.something, and that it was almost impossible to get any resources committed from leadership to even do it despite the fact it was security requiring it (which usually resulted in everyone jumping before stopping to ask how high to jump). I want to say he ended up doing it himself? Something like that..
All existing extremely minimal headcount was tied up in a massive technical debt of KTLO work, and proposals to resolve those issues similarly met resourcing road-blocks.
Absolutely does not imply the workers are automated since they can now use the current models to do more complex tasks at the vast number of new AI training data startups.
Turk was simply not designed for greater complexity tasks and so much of their lunch has been eaten by startups specifically built to collect AI training data.
It helped me buy a Battlefield 2 "Special Forces" expansion pack back in the day.
Well, I could've bought it either way but buying it didn't impact my normal income because I did Mechanical Turk in my free time enough to get it.
Human labeling is a two sided marketplace and so as any marketplace startup knows, both sides need to be constantly nurtured otherwise the system can collapse as worsening quality leads to churn and a vicious cycle that empties out the platform.
In labeling, you need to understand the limitations of individual work and fatigue, keep your pipeline bursting with awesome and consistent work, and improve the platform to make customer experience great.
AMT has been totally languishing in all these respects. Pay is terrible, dishonesty rampant, etc. It was a bad product, no need to pedestalize it or turn it political
Never underestimate just how cheap human life is!